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kaishaku
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Registered: 2004-05-14
Posts: 189

I believe we should design the game to be played a certain number
of hours in a day and a certain number of hours per character.

I think advancement should be relatively quick, with maximum
advancement for a character available in no more than 200 hours,
and probably quite a bit less, perhaps even closer to 120, 160?

I do not think a tremendous advantage should be had by those
with much more time to spend in the game around the clock.

This relates to fun because I think some players can feel forced
to spend more time than they should in the game in order to
compete with others. Additionally, some games seem to require
you to achieve maximum advancement before you can fully
partake in the gameplay. That is not fun, and wrong imho.

I think that 4 hours a day should be considered an average for
the hard core players. At that number, it would take 50 days not
counting hours spent doing other things, to reach maximum
advancement, or the maximum level.

I don't think this should be a major concern for the players, it
should almost be something that simply happens if they wish
to devote time to it. It should not be a grueling struggle.

The grueling struggles will be elsewhere in the game, that is
primarily the point of this project, to provide a multiplayer game
with roleplaying and strategy. The game is not to advance your
character, it is to play your character and interact with other player
controlled characters, be that in conflict or friendship.

Finally, I think that each character should have a life span, mostly
predetermined, give or take a few years of their life for the drama.
Perhaps that range should be +-5% of their total lifespan.

In case you missed that I just said I think characters shoukd die of
old age. I want to say that a character should perhaps live 400-600
hours, plus or minus 5% for their untimely death.

Why is this fun? Well, if you don't get bored with a character after
400-600 hours, perhaps you are not exploring the full potential of
the character well enough. This gives people a chance to see what
roleplay really is all about, imho. It is not about the accumulation
of material wealth or fame, it is about playing a character. That
character is not destined to be some great omnipotent legend.
Though that could occur, it probably will not. Characters should
live fast and die young, in a metaphorical sense. You should play
out your character based on this sort of timeline. An omnipotent
mage ruling the game for it's existence is not a legend, he's an
annoyance and probably isn't controlled by a well meaning player.

2004-05-17 03:05:05

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Zadmar
Member

Registered: 2004-05-24
Posts: 27

So...after 120-200 hours your character stops advancing. What then? Because in my experience, if there's nothing else to do many players will get bored and leave. If there are at least some things that people can still do, though, they will often hang around and do those, or chat with old friends.

But if you delete them after 400 hours, very few of those players will come back. Many players will stay even if they're a bit bored, or feel mistreated, because they feel they have an investment in the mud. But take that investment away, and that's the last you'll see of them. And if you're making it clear up front that characters have an expiry date, you'll be discouraging a lot of potential players from joining, while many of those who do play aren't going to want to waste their valuable hours on trivial activities such as social interaction. An the older a character gets, the less his player will want to waste his remaining time, until eventually they'll probably just leave their character in stasis rather than lose him completely.

Permadeath has its advantages and disadvantages, but I really can't see any benefit in what you propose. It's not even as there's any in-game logic behind it, either, as you're basing the deletions on playing time rather than real character age - you're punishing players for playing.

Sorry to sound so negative, but I really don't think this idea will work out very well.

2004-05-27 07:40:33

kaishaku
Administrator

Registered: 2004-05-14
Posts: 189

It works out well in many of the muds I have played.

It also strikes an interesting balance between 5000 hour characters
and absolutely permanent death, two other methods people play.

Zadmar wrote:

So...after 120-200 hours your character stops advancing. What then?

Well, you play the game as you like, you devote some percentage of your time
to something like hack-and-slash for "advancement". This was not to imply that
you spend your first 200 hours in the game advancing your character. It means
that it takes a certain percentage of your life to advance; ie. to work on your skills.

Your character will die of old age after some point. You will let go of your fears
and play the game, for fun. Advancing characters numbers will be easy. Advancing
their status in the world will be a challenge. Perhaps we can make up our own RP*
acronym to set this school of thinking apart from others, as "RPI" does for some.

Characters who never die are rarely beneficial in RP muds, and often annoying imho.
Dying on your first login because you lost link is also annoying, especially if the
game requires you to come up with a description and role before your character is
even allowed to play. I think a defined, but ample, lifetime is a great benefit.

I expect people to play the game, have fun, die, then start another character.

I know people do this. They prefer the mechanics of it, and so do I.

I'd like to hear alternatives which address the problems with "immortal" characters.

The arguments against, "What then?" after advancement in my system can be
similarly applied from my side against "immortal" characters. When they reach
maximum advancement, "What then?", they get bored and do silly stuff, they
torment, the show people how important they are, and much more. They play
pathological king of the hill.

2004-05-27 11:56:12

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Zadmar
Member

Registered: 2004-05-24
Posts: 27

kaishaku wrote:

It works out well in many of the muds I have played.

I'd be interested to see exactly what approach these muds use - could you provide the name/address of one or two?

kaishaku wrote:

Characters who never die are rarely beneficial in RP muds, and often annoying imho.

This is often true, and is probably what many of the hardcore RP muds use permadeath. Unfortunately, an expiry date doesn't really solve the problem - it doesn't matter how much I plot and plan, I can never assassinate the king. I have to wait for him to die of old age. Presumably during that time he will also have prepared an heir to take over from him (an alt? a friend's character?), and so the overall affect on the plot will probably be little better than having an immortal king.

kaishaku wrote:

I'd like to hear alternatives which address the problems with "immortal" characters.

The regular permadeath system is one solution - if you get killed, you need to create a new character. This could also be combined with death from old age, but character age shouldn't be based on playing time.

You could also use some sort of remort/reincarnation system - similar to your expiry date model, but once a character reaches their maximum age they are not wiped. Instead, the player can recreate them from scratch, with additional options available based on how well they played their previous character (determined via a "karma" attribute, maybe?). The character will be gone, but all the hard work won't have been for nothing. Or to put it another way, don't make character death entirely a punishment - make it at least partly a reward. Don't make the players feel that they've gone back to step 1 - make them feel that they've moved up to the next phase of gameplay.

2004-05-28 04:17:20

kaishaku
Administrator

Registered: 2004-05-14
Posts: 189

Zadmar wrote:

I'd be interested to see exactly what approach these muds use - could you provide the name/address of one or two?

Carrion Fields and the near half dozen or so like it and sharing code with it do this.
You live, you die, they even advance the concept by allowing "con death" before
your age death, whereby losing all CON points is permanent death. You lose 1/3rd
of a CON point for each and every death, and multi-killing PK is fully accepted.
Going back to your corpse to get pk'ed again and slandered OOC? Not a problem in the imms eyes. Plenty of people play CF.

Zadmar wrote:

This is often true, and is probably what many of the hardcore RP muds use permadeath. Unfortunately, an expiry date doesn't really solve the problem - it doesn't matter how much I plot and plan, I can never assassinate the king. I have to wait for him to die of old age. Presumably during that time he will also have prepared an heir to take over from him (an alt? a friend's character?), and so the overall affect on the plot will probably be little better than having an immortal king.

Well, this is a game, not a reality. We take certain liberties in that regard.
Many seekers of realism are hilariously blind to the liberties taken by Diku
creators, yet are spectacularly adamant that others cannot take them.

Furthermore, appointment of important positions of influence will be done
by the staff not the current player whose character holds that position.

Zadmar wrote:

The regular permadeath system is one solution - if you get killed, you need to create a new character. This could also be combined with death from old age, but character age shouldn't be based on playing time.

Why not? What should character age be based on?

You are for permadeath and immortality, but against age death? That's silly imho.
You make it a black and white issue, but I think it can be much more.

Zadmar wrote:

You could also use some sort of remort/reincarnation system - similar to your expiry date model, but once a character reaches their maximum age they are not wiped. Instead, the player can recreate them from scratch, with additional options available based on how well they played their previous character (determined via a "karma" attribute, maybe?). The character will be gone, but all the hard work won't have been for nothing. Or to put it another way, don't make character death entirely a punishment - make it at least partly a reward. Don't make the players feel that they've gone back to step 1 - make them feel that they've moved up to the next phase of gameplay.

This results in elitist play, common in muds, and makes the mud unfriendly to
new players, as well as probably anyone who is not at maximum advancement.

Any sort of remort system is against our tenents for fun, allowing someone with
less skill and more time to become a nuisance, forcing others to feel the need
to play. I won't perpetuate this vile cycle of negative play you and most others
adhere to. You are continually thinking of hooking players and use whatever
means necessary to do so. This is a huge problem I have with most muds.

This game will be one in which player skill matters, not so much character skill.

I am interested in giving players some incentive to start the new character,
but it works already with no incentive on much less well designed muds.
I don't think a really good way of doing this without upsetting the time vs skill
balance exists, so perhaps instead of no incentive we can aim for "some" incentive,
but always assume, quite rightly imho, that the incentive IS the new character.

Playing new and exciting characters is the fun. Playing the same one for thousands
of hours after having achieved maximum advancement is either not fun or bad RP.

I know all worlds, immortal, permadeath and age death and age death is the
one I prefer to use in this game.

2004-05-28 04:37:11

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kaishaku
Administrator

Registered: 2004-05-14
Posts: 189

"Some" incentive means things like the selection of a more rare race/class
on your next character creation, or perhaps selecting to be a descendant of
the character you played previously, perhaps inheriting some small benefit.

However, many muds and players accept age death (and worse) with no such
incentives whatsoever, save the opportunity to play a wonderful new character.

Age death certainly adds to the RP-ability of a game as well. Powerful chars
which never die, making the mud top heavy, is quite common and ridiculous
for many reasons. I think more mature gamers will enjoy this death system.

2004-05-28 04:41:30

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Zadmar
Member

Registered: 2004-05-24
Posts: 27

kaishaku wrote:

Well, this is a game, not a reality. We take certain liberties in that regard.

It's not an issue of realism - it's about whether the gameplay is static or dynamic.

There was a story some years ago about an event in Ultima Online, whereby several players formed a plot against Lord British, and through careful planning eventually managed to carry out his assassination. They had perfectly good IC reasons for doing so, and the plot was carried out flawlessly.

However it went against the wishes of the owners of the game, so the players were banned and Lord British returned to life.

kaishaku wrote:

Furthermore, appointment of important positions of influence will be done by the staff not the current player whose character holds that position.

Then obviously we see things differently. I prefer a freeform system whereby the future of each character is in their own hands, while you seem to prefer a game guided by the admin, with each player is assigned the roles they are to play - much like the situation I described above with Lord British.

kaishaku wrote:

Why not? What should character age be based on?

You have an in-game date and time, I assume? Surely it makes far more sense to base age on that? Not only does that stop people being punished for being regular players, but it also stops wierd IC situations. Image attending the funeral of a hardcore PC who'd died of old age: "I knew him when he was just a youngster" you smile - then someone responds "But you're barely out of your twenties - he died at the age of 80!".

kaishaku wrote:

You are for permadeath and immortality, but against age death?

I'm neither "for" nor "against" anything, I am simply pointing out the pros and cons of each. Age death can be useful in some situations, but I don't believe a character expiry date will provide the results you're looking for.

kaishaku wrote:

This results in elitist play, common in muds, and makes the mud unfriendly to new players, as well as probably anyone who is not at maximum advancement.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. My suggestion is about as unbiased as you can get - each player is rewarded based on their own ability, while your proposal is that players are given positions of power by the admin. In my opinion you don't get much more elitist than that, regardless of how fair you try to be. And even if you don't feel that way, that's the view that many people will take - I've seen this sort of situation in the past.

kaishaku wrote:

I know all worlds, immortal, permadeath and age death and age death is the one I prefer to use in this game.

As you wish - it's your game, after all. But you invited discussion, and that's why I'm here.

2004-05-28 06:21:33

Syphie
Member

Registered: 2004-05-19
Posts: 32

I think what Kaishaku meant by:

"Furthermore, appointment of important positions of influence will be done by the staff not the current player whose character holds that position."

If we implement a system by which there are armies with heiarchies of command, then the people granted the highest levels of power will have "earned it" by processes of skill development, quests and Roleplay. It will not be a decision based on favortism by admins, or OOC connections to other players in high positions.

If someone boils up a clever plot and carries it out, I dont see that as being punished. Maybe King British is not "dead" but would admit his defeat and step down from his post. The outcome of the assassination attempt doesnt HAVE to rely on actual DEATH. This is a game world, we can take some liberties.

But what I hope we will avoid is the old "I Goryam, leader of the Dragonslayers....here upon my deathbed, appoint my 15 years old nephew Glalin to carry on my rule."

If Nephew Glalin is skilled enough, has roleplayed himself into an appropriate position, and has completed the necessary quests... then sure, he might be the best canidate. But if there is a High commander who has been serving the army for 30 years, has a great record of service (both in skill and RP), then I think he should be first in line to the Leadership post, as opposed to the nephew.

I don't think the main factions of the game should be allowed to stay in the control of one group of players who are friends just because they are friends in real life. Though I would allow smaller "player created clans and organizations" to assign leadership positions as they please. The only real keypoint that I would emphasize for these, is that they must remain ACTIVELY roleplayed. I don't like how there are 20 different organizations in some mud worlds, but only about 3 of them ever DO anything. If your organization fails to keep up its ranks and duties as they are stated in your mission statement, then I think they should be disbanded and any property seized.

This way, you don't have players creating orgs JUST for private properties and perks.

This went a little off topic... back to the point of TIME and DEATH.
I believe you can have a system of age based death, where in people will value and live their lives KNOWING the time is limited. Things like how many times you have died or what race you are might have a slight bearing on the ACTUAL time you will die from old age. But I think there will be some players who will choose a "final death" for their character as the result of an epic fight or a successful assassination attempt on them. These are the players who make a world rich, and alive and fun to be part of... (in my opinion) and I hope we will be sucessful in finding them and having them in our world.

2004-05-28 13:41:55

Pandemonium
Member

Registered: 2004-05-20
Posts: 17

Perhaps I'm a little niave, but can I suggest a possible working solution?....Old age and reincarnation.

The older a player gets, the lower their statistics will get to a minimum "working" level. At that point they can still maintain themselves and be their character, but their adventuring days are at an end. To begin anew, they literally choose to die (set up a funeral, draw up a will...roleplay giving heirs and goods, etc) and then die to be reborn.

As said above, perhaps perks to their next life such as being reborn into the same "family" with connections....or maybe just a little extra starting money or roleplay points.

If there is a minimum age to be able to choose death, players wouldn't just be commiting hari-kari all over the place to give themselves bonuses. You play a character, adventure, have fun, roleplay a little (or a lot), make friends, grow old and choose to pass away to begin anew.

Something that just brought a smile to me: A scribe detailing the highlights of your life when you choose to die.

"Strong of arm, weak of will but kind to animals, Kaishaku became a well known knight of Parseltia at an early age. Fighting in the highlands under King Mantrius's banner, he both followed and led in many campaigns. Retiring to his home in the city, he was approached and joined the City Council's ranks and voted on many an influential issue.

Passing on to his next life this day the 23rd, Year of the Shorn Cat, 618.

Epitaph: 'For Those Who Have Fallen, Yet Remembered Still.'"

--P

_______________________________________
MSQ: "Games of Mortality"

2004-05-28 15:33:32

kaishaku
Administrator

Registered: 2004-05-14
Posts: 189

Zadmar wrote:

kaishaku wrote:

Well, this is a game, not a reality. We take certain liberties in that regard.

That is quite ridiculous and I wonder why you mention it really. That is quite the
opposite of what would occur in a game I have a part in creating.

The gameplay is well defined, you can call it "static" in some aspects, but I can
argue it is more "dynamic" in others. It is like any traditional game, there is a
set of rules and goals on the global level. It is not simply an experience.

Sure there will be experiences, but the global level is not free form by any means.

Most muds have nothing, or very little, of substance on that level.

Zadmar wrote:

kaishaku wrote:

Furthermore, appointment of important positions of influence will be done by the staff not the current player whose character holds that position.

You simply have no understanding of me or what I want and this is annoying,
perhaps even futile. Saying this game doesn't allow the players to control their own
future is another instance of you making something a black and white issue, it's
becoming more and more frustrating. Players will have most or all of the say in
their future. If they wish to be one of the few very important persons of influence in
the game, ie. clan leaders, then they will need to be verified worthy as such in
character and out of character by the players as well as the immortals.

Yes, I am fully aware that in reality immortals do not, arguably, choose who gains
positions of power and influence, but this game is not a reality.

I can only imagine you are not really reading everything that is said here.

Make replies without tearing apart our ideas and reshaping them to best suit
your arguments. Perhaps this is simply your mindset? Perhaps I am too receptive.

Zadmar wrote:

kaishaku wrote:

Why not? What should character age be based on?

Players are not punished for being regular players, they have plenty of play time
per character. You cannot even argue that without knowing the game. For all you
know an 8 hour character life could be sufficient if the game was designed that way.
This is the sort of negativity that really plagues a project in abstract design.

Time difference is a known liberty we accept as the lesser of two evils.

Aging relative to our time is hugely problematic, and implemented for what reason?
It is implemented for realism in the game, something I do not consider to be of
absolute primary importance, and something that Diku and Diku-like developers
are hilariously confused about themselves, as they strive for and argue for advanced
realistic machinations, ignoring those unreal game liberties taken on by the original
creators of the codebase they hack away at.

Zadmar wrote:

kaishaku wrote:

You are for permadeath and immortality, but against age death?

Well, that makes you very confusing to understand. Please give us your opinions.

Zadmar wrote:

kaishaku wrote:

This results in elitist play, common in muds, and makes the mud unfriendly to new players, as well as probably anyone who is not at maximum advancement.

You have snipped and replied to the wrong context here.

I have also seen this sort of situation in the past, and it works out just fine.
I have not seen the utopian ultra-realistic creations everyone was talking about
8 years ago just as they are now. I am also fairly sure I do not want to play in
such a thing, as my real life is so complex that my free time is best spent on
well defined games, not open ended experiences.

Zadmar wrote:

kaishaku wrote:

I know all worlds, immortal, permadeath and age death and age death is the one I prefer to use in this game.

As you wish - it's your game, after all. But you invited discussion, and that's why I'm here.

And why exactly are you instigating this friction here. Your reply, using a common
tactic, probably described in Arthur Schopenhauer's "Die Kunst, Recht zu behalten"
if I remember right, is entirely off the mark. ("The Art of Controversy")

"Its your game after all"... "you invited discussion"... funny.

The reply does not match up with what you actually quoted, imho.

I have an opinion as everyone else does, you will not be allowed to use my
strong opinion against me simply because I am the founder of this project.

What you have said here in this last bit is rather disconcerting.

2004-05-28 16:38:51

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kaishaku
Administrator

Registered: 2004-05-14
Posts: 189

Pandemonium wrote:

Perhaps I'm a little niave, but can I suggest a possible working solution?....Old age and reincarnation.

The older a player gets, the lower their statistics will get to a minimum "working" level. At that point they can still maintain themselves and be their character, but their adventuring days are at an end. To begin anew, they literally choose to die (set up a funeral, draw up a will...roleplay giving heirs and goods, etc) and then die to be reborn.

I am actually against the lowering of statistics because it makes the player feel
rushed in their life, gradually destroying them. Quite unrealistically, I like the
idea of a player maintaining his stats as he ages. If you find this hard to
believe, please explain why you can throw fireballs from your hand... :p

Anyway, I think we can take that liberty to keep the game fun. The mystery
behind it could be defined by the immortals and story if we like, and still
could be kept a mystery, obscurely hinted at, to mere mortals if desired.

I do like the idea of retiring your character as you choose, so I think we could
very well provide the option to retire a character, while allowing him to stay in
the game for roleplay purposes. That is a very good thought, if it is what you
meant, and that is the kind of positive thought I am looking for here.

Also, I have thought that accounts can have up to 3 characters associated with
them, so they could still keep their old retired player for RP and nostalgia.

Pandemonium wrote:

As said above, perhaps perks to their next life such as being reborn into the same "family" with connections....or maybe just a little extra starting money or roleplay points.

I have a problem with recreation perks as far as defining castes among players
goes (not characters, players). This is the same problem I have with characters
that can "remort" on some muds to start a whole new class while keeping all
their old skills, never dying, and after 2000 hours finally being able to play the
real global level game as they have finally achieved level 100 in all classes and
won't be swatted away like a fly among the top levels players, which make up
90% of the playerbase, and make it difficult for new players to play as they may
have when the core playerbase before them had not yet achieved 1000 total levels.

If we can make the perks system work, I think it would be a nice compromise.
I particularly like perks of family relationship, especially in a generally austere
and rightfully respectful atmosphere. Perhaps there could be some other things
like class and race perks, but nothing overbearing to those without them.

I think it would be best if the perks were very much aimed at RP, not mathematics.

P.S. Nice eulogy and epitaph, I will be missed. *tear*

2004-05-28 16:50:43

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kaishaku
Administrator

Registered: 2004-05-14
Posts: 189

It seems we have three abstract schools of thought in muds really...

1) Permanent death when you die, whenever that is, even if after 20 minutes of play.
2) Permanent life, no matter what
3) Not 1 or 2

I really don't want 1 or 2.

In 3 you die of age and con death, or related. I don't like con death as it cripples
your character for life when you are "killed" at any time in life, especially bad when
this happens in youth.

I prefer age death, which is to say after a certain age your character cannot
participate as he would have previously in the game. The term age death is
somewhat abstract in this regard. It should be expected you can retire, or
be killed, or whatever you RP. You can, of course, also choose to retire or
be killed prior to reaching or even approaching the time limit.

I have also been thinking all along that death won't be like Diku death and will be
veiled with carefully selected words which never actually mention a death, merely
a defeat and subsequent period of darkness, after which you wake up not knowing
where you are, or possibly even what happened, at first. This isn't the place for
more elaborate explanation of that, but keep it in mind. ( or post a new thread )

2004-05-28 17:04:26

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kaishaku
Administrator

Registered: 2004-05-14
Posts: 189

If we can implement some means to prevent people from playing 20 hours
a day to gain advantage over someone who started at the same time, then
I will consider a system where character age is determined by player time;
the time in our reality.

Since I know of no elegant solution to this, I definitely currently prefer that
character age is determined by play time. The reality based time is more
elegant, but not every decision we have to make will be like previous ones.

Here the desire to keep skilled players from being blasted through life by
a player with more time on their hands is more important than the realism
of aging in the game. We also like the idea of players being able to do
things like go on vacation for a couple weeks or more.

Basically, it seems the players we want are those older game savvy types
who have real lives to deal with. Or, even younger people interested in
intellectual play, for which you don't feel obligated to absolutely throw time
at in order to have fun. Feel free to go on vacation, go outside, etc.

P.S. I am glad to see people are responding to this thread now, because I
consider it one of the primary factors in the creation and direction of this game.

2004-05-28 17:15:18

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Pandemonium
Member

Registered: 2004-05-20
Posts: 17

A possible solution to the power gamers that stay on twenty hours a day to build their character could lie in the physics of the real world. Say you're waking up to a day full of promise, you grab your friends for a gaming session and you all hit the tabletops. Nine hours later, no matter how creative or enthused you are, you're hitting the bricks and you need some time off.

Same solution here. The longer a player is on during the day, the more tired their character gets. At the beginning of the day and even four hours into it they don't really feel the effects, but going on five to six hours their character needs more "down time" to heal up, has a harder time maintaining concentration for spells, or just downright pauses and yawns while walking around.

Happens in real life and there's a valid reason for it happening in game time too--how long can someone run around at top speed throwing lightning and swinging a five pound sword three times a second? It purposefully gives the power gamers a mark to shoot for (6 hours or so) without detracting from the non-fighting and character roleplaying side. After all, even tired and cranky I'm still "me" without having to fry a critter in hellfire every other second.

--P

_______________________________________
MSQ: "Games of Mortality"

2004-05-30 11:56:50

Zadmar
Member

Registered: 2004-05-24
Posts: 27

kaishaku wrote:

"Its your game after all"... "you invited discussion"... funny.

It's not intended to be funny, it's intended to draw attention to the fact that I'm not trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do, only discuss (and give my views on) the ideas you've proposed.

As has been said already, mud development is not a black and white issue - there is no "right" or "wrong", only different approaches based on individual design goals. You're never going to please everyone, and you shouldn't try to - at the end of the day you should design your mud in the way you want it to be.

In this case, I disagree with your proposal, and have given my reasons why - but it's still your mud and your decision to make. And (in the part of the message I responded to), it seems clear you've made your mind up ("I know all worlds, immortal, permadeath and age death and age death is the one I prefer to use in this game").

Thus I say "fair enough", and will now move on to different topics of discussion.

2004-05-30 18:02:57

kaishaku
Administrator

Registered: 2004-05-14
Posts: 189

I have an opinion as everyone else does, you will not be allowed to use my
strong opinion against me simply because I am the founder of this project.

2004-05-30 19:53:44

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Syphie
Member

Registered: 2004-05-19
Posts: 32

I thought Pandemonium's idea about fatigue setting in as you begin to log over more than 4-6 hours or however much we decide should be the limit.

Age based death seems like the best compromise in my opinion. I don't think you can have a very strong RP atmosphere with permadeath, since most people will not invest the same time and energy creating and evolving a "role" that might end at any moment.

The idea of the battle ending in unconciousness and brief confusion as Kaishaku introduced is something I have been thinking of as well. It is a better alternative than "I am so special, the God's revived me YET again"... Lets face it, there are some characters in every world that NO ONE would save.

I think these three ideas are the ones that stood out most to me as being great, they will enable the world to have variety and depth in ROLEPLAY by making a world where you don't have to be "the glorious hero" to have an interesting place and role in the world.

2004-06-01 13:14:31

Pandemonium
Member

Registered: 2004-05-20
Posts: 17

Good point Syphie, if there's permanent death when you drop in place then nobody will spend much time creating a back history and play style for their might-be-instantly-unplayable persona.

How about mini-permadeath? As in when someone dies they remain dead until their god (diety, immortal, player relations specialist) brings them back? It opens up a whole world of god and player interactions, as if I know my ultimate fate rests in the hands of my god I'm going to do everything I can in his/her name and be a pious little worshipper.

Or if you flat out don't like bending a knee to anyone or anything you can go your own way, knowing that any adventure could be your last.

--P

_______________________________________
MSQ: "Games of Mortality"

2004-06-02 09:00:33

kaishaku
Administrator

Registered: 2004-05-14
Posts: 189

I think we should consider relative independence from realtime staff interaction
for things like this. We should not develop assuming an overactive staff.

The same dilemma exists in the building of areas and creation of quests..

2004-06-02 10:26:55

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